Alternative ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies in multi-cat breeder households Options

[Catsfriend]

I am continuing the discussion started under "What's wrong if queens aren't calling any more" here with a new thread, because of the change of topic.

As Lee Lee suggests, and many others will certainly agree, physical separation of males and females and keeping the cats strictly indoors or in cages is certainly a safe way to go in order to prevent unwanted pregnanies.

However, personally, I find this concept challenging for a number of reasons.

(1) I find it a bit cruel not to allow my adult males any socialising with other cats, except when they are allowed to mate, which is only about twice a year for each. I can't let my males get together, because they would fight. However, they enjoy very much spending some time with females and kittens, always one male at a time, either supervised indoors or outside in the backyard, and it is a pleasure to watch their interactions. They seem to be very happy this way. I know, this can be risky, but how else can you give them a social life?

(2) It can be hard to determine when a young male is old enough for mating. I still have a young Russian male of 7 months age indoors, with adult females, and don't know how long I can keep this up. He hasn't shown any sexual behaviour by now, but I have read of other males being ready as young as at 4 months! I am trying to delay locking young males away alone into an outdoor cage as long as I can - again with the intention in mind to keep them as happy as possible - and we also enjoy their company, as a family. Again a risk - but how do other breeders handle that?

(3) In some cases, I find it also hard to determine when a female is on heat. Some don't seem to show any signs at all, they don't seem to "call" (particularly, if they are vocal all year long anyway), they don't seem to behave differently (particularly if they are generally, always, very affecctionate and playful) - and one day when you open a window or the door of your home or their cage, they suddenly sneak out, run off and don't come back until the next day...and one month later you realise, shocked, that they are pregnant! Can other breeders please share with me how they identify such "quiet heats"? Are there any sure symptoms? Anyway, why is there no swelling of the vulva and no bleeding, such as, for example, in dogs? Don't cats ever menstruate?

I will be grateful for any education and advice!

[Furrballz]

I usually allow a girl I am planning on allowing to mate with my male, to stay in with him and just check her regularly for signs of pregnancy. This way he has company.
Another good companion is a desexed cat.

If you want them to 'socialise' together, then I would be investing in a couple of dog sanitary pants or 'b!tches britches' from your local pet/feed store. Inside they have a really pissy little pad that is useless to soak up any urine that can occur, so I place in 1/2 an incontinence pad so my boy can think he is spraying to his hearts content, but isnt!
The other plus is that is covers their boy bits, so they can get as amorous as they want, but no babies can be produced!

[Lee Lee]

I have had one of my younger boys who is not working yet living with one of my 2 yr old queens. If I dont have a companion for him he cries all the time...so now he is very happy. Once this girl is older I will desex her and keep her as a stud companion as she has such a laid back temperament. The other reason for her living with him is that she is a silent caller...so if she gets pregnant all the better.

My studs all have big enclosures and the enclosures are near to each other...so the cats can still see each other. I also have a huge fully fenced spa area that I let one boy who doesnt get along with others out into. I usually take out my cuppa and paper and read while he has some time exploring.

I havent found a way to tell when a silent caller is in heat...that is why my 2 yr old queen is living with a boy full time.

[kittenmitten]

aren't you worried about the russians matings with the birman (or the moggies?)

[Catsfriend]

@ kittenmitten: No. All moggies living on my premises or in my neighbourhood are desexed. I did quite a bit of door-knocking and talking to my neighbours to make sure they all ere.

My own two breeds are separated from each other at all times. My stud males are never let out of their cages when the girls of the other breed have their 'freedom backyard walking and tree climbing' time. The two breeds never mix. Only the queens and kittens under one year of age share our home and bed, no undesexed boys.

@ Lee Lee: I did the same with my second oldest Birman girl and kept her mainly in a cage, because SHE SPRAYS, and she has spent a few nights only with my very young Birman boy (under 1 year of age). This queen is 6 1/2 years old and hasn't shown any signs of being in heat for the last 1 1/2 years.

I thought she was going through climacterium/menopause - does that actually happen in cats? (Question to all of you!)

Guess what: This morning, today, I sent this queen to my Adelaide vet for desexing, so she can finally and ultimately retire. Soon after she arrived, the vet gave me a call and said he has the feeling in his fingertips that she could be possibly pregnant. So, I stopped the procedure. Gee! That was a surprise. We still don't know whether it is true. But if she has one last litter, they will definitely be purebred Birmans!
Knock on wood - my "Treasure" is the only one of my queens who could possibly deliver a Red-Point girl - which I have wished for for a long time. Treasure is a Tortie Point, the father a Seal Point. She had 3 Red-Point boys over the last 3 years, but never a Red-Point girl. Knock wood. I am looking forward what will happen - if it will.

;)

[Catsfriend]

I have had one of my younger boys who is not working yet living with one of my 2 yr old queens. If I dont have a companion for him he cries all the time...so now he is very happy. Once this girl is older I will desex her and keep her as a stud companion as she has such a laid back temperament. The other reason for her living with him is that she is a silent caller...so if she gets pregnant all the better.

My studs all have big enclosures and the enclosures are near to each other...so the cats can still see each other. I also have a huge fully fenced spa area that I let one boy who doesnt get along with others out into. I usually take out my cuppa and paper and read while he has some time exploring.

I havent found a way to tell when a silent caller is in heat...that is why my 2 yr old queen is living with a boy full time.

Lee Lee, I believe this a very good practice, and I do the same.

I put my stud boys outside into an cage as soon as they start spraying. Of course, that is a big change for them, and I feel really sorry for them to sleep outside instead of cuddling with me in my bed, and they are not happy either. It makes the change much easier for them, if they have some cat company. I found the time when the boys start start spraying their territory and showing sexual behaviour is at about one year of age. What is your experience?

[Furrballz]

"Guess what: This morning, today, I sent this queen to my Adelaide vet for desexing, so she can finally and ultimately retire. Soon after she arrived, the vet gave me a call and said he has the feeling in his fingertips that she could be possibly pregnant. So, I stopped the procedure. Gee! That was a surprise. We still don't know whether it is true. But if she has one last litter, they will definitely be purebred Birmans!
Knock on wood - my "Treasure" is the only one of my queens who could possibly deliver a Red-Point girl - which I have wished for for a long time. Treasure is a Tortie Point, the father a Seal Point. She had 3 Red-Point boys over the last 3 years, but never a Red-Point girl. Knock wood. I am looking forward what will happen - if it will."

You are misstaken CF
You can only get a red girl from having TWO o-gene parents and as your boy is Seal, it cant happen.
The Father would need to be Cream or Red and the Mother Tortie

[Lee Lee]

You are misstaken CF
You can only get a red girl from having TWO o-gene parents and as your boy is Seal, it cant happen.
The Father would need to be Cream or Red and the Mother Tortie

there is a website that can help to determine kittens colour/patterns going by the parents if you are not familiar.

[Catsfriend]

there is a website that can help to determine kittens colour/patterns going by the parents if you are not familiar.

Would you please point me to this website, Lee Lee or Terri-Ann - please? These two parent cats have produced Red Point males before, and in the pedigree of my Tortie queen are several Red Point females - so why is it not possible that she can produce red girls? I would really like to know for sure whether this is true - because I have been waiting and hoping to get a Red Point girl from her so long...

[Lee Lee]

I use this a lot...helps if you know if the parents carry choc and dilute.

http://bluesapphire.hemsida.net/Links/colorchart.htm

[Furrballz]

Would you please point me to this website, Lee Lee or Terri-Ann - please? These two parent cats have produced Red Point males before, and in the pedigree of my Tortie queen are several Red Point females - so why is it not possible that she can produce red girls? I would really like to know for sure whether this is true - because I have been waiting and hoping to get a Red Point girl from her so long...

Because Red is not carried. It is not a gene as such
just like a Tabby pattern, it has to be SEEN on both sides of the parents (they have to BE O-gene) to produce a red girl. Even then you may not get a red or cream girl.
I did a tortie to red mating and got NO red or cream girls!

[Heather Sharada]

Would you please point me to this website, Lee Lee or Terri-Ann - please? These two parent cats have produced Red Point males before, and in the pedigree of my Tortie queen are several Red Point females - so why is it not possible that she can produce red girls? I would really like to know for sure whether this is true - because I have been waiting and hoping to get a Red Point girl from her so long...

Sorry to disappoint but it is not going to happen for the reason that TA suggests...it is a simple genetic impossibility.

I use the same colour predictor software - very useful when you are learning your colour genetics or like me have ocassional amnesia..

[Catsfriend]

Thank you so much for this link to the colour predictor - that is extremely valuable!!!

Well, it looks like I will never have a red or cream girl from my Birmans then ... perhaps I should keep and raise a red boy should she have one then who is breeding quality. The (possibly prospective) father is 10 years old now, so we will need a new stud at some stage anyway, and I just adore the Reds.

[Heather Sharada]

Reds are lovely and I also was more than a little fond of them and did keep Dennis for just that reason but what happens with a Red stud is that you get masses of torties and unfortunately the general public don't feel the same way about torties as they do about seals and blues.

They can be very hard to find homes for among the pet people and the breeders alike....Reds are a little easier however I know of a litter of seven that had 5 red and cream boys and only one had been sold by the age of 9 months....the rest had to be given away for the cost of desexing.