Broke cat owner not willing to give up her pets Options

[Catsfriend]

I have been in contact with a very poor woman in our region via email over the last few months. She has at least two cats and two dogs, all undesexed, and one of her cats delivered kittens two months ago. I promised to help her to get all her cats desexed cheaply and to find homes for the kittens, once they are old enough. (I didnt' know about her dogs at that time yet.)

Two days ago I picked her mother cat and two kittens up - for desexing - from her home upon her request, as she couldn't bring them to me (15km away), because she had 'no money for the petrol'.

She gave me a cheque for the vet fee of $65 each for two females and $45 for the male kitten. I left the next morning with her cats to Adelaide, but my car broke down, and I had to cancel the appointment. The RAA brought me and the cats back to my home. I informed the owner that I am happy to look after her cats until next week, when my car will be fixed. At the same time, I suggested to her that I could start advertising these cats for adoption. In return, she informed me that her cheque was not covered anyway and I couldn't claim the money for the vet services until in 3 weeks, when she 'gets her next pension', and also that she has no intention giving her animals up for adoption.

The mother cat is in a desperate state: Severely undernourished and panicking at every attempt of a human contact. She scratched her owner badly after a hunt through that extremely messy and dirty home, before we got her into a transport crate (which I had to supply, too, because the owner had none). Originally the owner had 4 or 5 kittens; when I visited, there were only two left who she wants to keep, only 9 weeks old. They are still under 1 kg, the balls in the boy haven't dropped yet, and so, I believe it is too early to have them desexed anyway. I told the owner that, although I appreciate that she wnats them desexed ASAP, it would be a good idea to wait for another week or more.

I still have the mother and her two kittens in my care. I also have enquiries for mix-bred kittens from people who are willing to pay for all the recommended vet services, not just the desexing (which the owner wouldn't be able to pay for anyway within the next 3 weeks or ever, not to mention food and boarding costs). How shall I respond to her latest message? I quote:

"I have no intention of giving any of my animals up for adoption because I love them and will do the best for them and they help me get though the hard times without them to love my life would be empty."

This woman has close to zero money. Of course, I feel sorry for her, but I feel sorry for her animals, too. When I asked her what she is feeding her dogs and cats, she answered, "Anything that's left from my kitchen table." Her mother cat most definitely did not have enough to eat for weeks. Her house is a total mess, and so is her life. Shall I really give these poor cats back to her? Do I have to?

[Furrballz]

I would report her to the RSPCA
Regardless of intentions, she is NOT looking after these animals in the way they need for their emotional and physical well being.

You could always start with an anonymous query with the rspca and see where you stand legally as you have the custody of them right now

[Heather Sharada]

She has no proof that they are hers as of course they are not micro-chipped but you have an ethical dilemma don't you.

I know that you are not close enough to the RSPCA but at least contact them for advice...I suspect that this would not be the first time they have had to advise on such a situation.

Cats from such an environment are putting your own cats at risk the longer they stay....holping that you have them quarrantined - also they are at risk from the kittens that you have that had the infection....this is highly contagious and can be spread in the enviroment.

[Catsfriend]

I followed your advice, Terri and Heather, and I just called the RSPCA and got very good and friendly information and advice. The legal situation is that I cannot take the cats away from the owner - or refuse to give them back - against the owner's will, even if they are not microchipped. Only the RSPCA or a public body could do that. The lady on the phone also said that if I have them desexed or pay for any other services for them such as vaccinations, food, etc. I'd do it at my own financial risk and have no way to claim the expenses back from her owner, when she claims and gets her cats back. She recommended that I insist on prepayment and do not accept cheques when I help other people with their pets. I cannot rehome her cats without her permission either, as, even without a microchip, there is certainly enough proof of the fact that the cats are hers and that I know it (emails, neighbours, photos, etc.).

The most reasonable thing I could do now, she said, was to convince the owner in a friendly way to surrender the cats to me or to a shelter, so they would get all the vet work done and good homes could be found for them - which I will try.

I am, of course, keeping these cats strictly quarantined, in a seperate room away from my own cats, and the room had been disinfected with antiviral spray in addition to washing everything with bleach and sanitiser (as all the other rooms and equipment of all my 6 bedrooms in my two houses where I accommodate all my cats), before they moved in. And it will be done again after they move out.

Still, I am in a dilemma: I don't know how long I shall keep them in my home. I am not willing to spend my petrol money and bring them back to this woman undesexed, so I asked her to pick them up. I think that is a fair request.
I am also not willing to have the vet work done at my own cost, and then give them back to this woman. I will ask her to transfer the payment to my bank account as soon as she has it, and I will have the vet work done then.
But, if she doesn't pick them up and doesn't pay for the vet work, they may stay my 'prisoners' for a very long time ... and that's a worry.

[lynh]

Despite the awkward position you have found yourself in, I have to commend you for attempting to help these poor animals.

I agree with furballz, this lady should be reported to the RSPCA and hopefully she will peacefully surrender all the animals to them for treatment, de-sexing and re-homing (we hope). The risk of legal action being taken against her and the possible costs/fines might be the only thing to persuade her to be sensible. You are doing more than enough and no-one would expect you to get into trouble over this.

Should she turn up to collect the cats from you, if you can't persuade her to in a friendly way to surrender them, I guess you have no choice but to give them back. The RSPCA is really the only way to go if she insists on having them back.

I would hesitate to call this woman "poor". If all she can afford is to feed all these animals table scraps (and I know being a woman on my own that there just aren't enough scraps to feed one cat, let alone multiple cats and dogs), how on earth can she afford a luxury items such as a computer and paying for monthly internet access/email??? It's really a joke. It's just like this old guy I know who can't afford to pay his bills, but still always manages to have a cigarette hanging out of his mouth and beer in the fridge!! It makes me very angry when people spend money on luxuries, but claim not to be able to afford to feed their pets.

I hope at some stage you have some good news for us all. Best of luck.

Lyn

[Heather Sharada]

For goodness sakes just take them back!! If you don't want to pay for the desexing yourself just give them back. They are not your responsibility but you make them yours so the costs involved are irrelevant and holding them longer makes no sense.

You do have a choice. If you return them and more kittens eventuate it is not your fault - you are not the responsible carer.

If it were me and I had been that foolish to collect her in the first place I at least would have arranged desexing of the mother and the kittens - if necessary at my expense. Then just give them back. She may pay - she may not. If she has said she will pay in writing then attempt to get the money back from her.

You already know she is not going to come and collect them and you have no legal rights to dispose of them - do the needful and giv e them back and put the costs down to a charitable act on your behalf and perhaps learn a lesson. You can't save the world single handedly.

[Michelle1963]

oh, catsfriend i can really feel for you.
I have a neighbour that is an animal hoarder and the times i have tried to help them get cats/dogs desexed but they dont care and once he turned up at my door and gave me 2 female kittens, he keeps the boys because they dont have kittens but lets them run wild getting any non-desexed female pregnant,anyway i didnt want them but i kept them as i know what life would be like if the stayed, i have all vetwork done on these 2 kittens then found them a loving home together but i was $500 out of pocket, a small price to pay for these 2 kittens to have a better life.
Dont get me wrong about not wanting to keep these 2 kittens but i have 4 cats of my own and do foster care for my local ranger.
At the monent i have 2 mums and 10 kittens in my cattery.
Aslo my hubby says" I cant save them all" how true.
I am sure your heart is in the right place and i know its hard to see pets suffering.
Goodluck.

[lynh]

I have six cats - two from pet shops, one from a lady running her own little rescue organisation from her home, two from my local RSPCA shelter and the last I "saved" from the home of a friend where she was being harrassed by the family dogs and was extremely unhappy. I suppose the only difference between me and a "hoarder" is that I know I've reached the limit of the number of cats that I can comfortably have in my home, feed well, provide large quantities of good litter for, and be able to pay for all their veterinary needs and medications (although I do have to try to bargain at times and do A LOT of searching online for the best prices).

Pet hoarding, along with the failure to provide adequate food and veterinary care, uncontrolled breeding through lack of desexing etc, is a hugely damaging symptom of a psychiatric/psychological problem, maybe something to do with a severe form of OCD, I'm not quite sure. In any case, for the sake of the animals, these people need to be reported to the RSPCA, prosecuted and banned from owning pets, and also be forced to receive medical help. Unfortunately, many of the animals "saved" from hoarders end up being put down and that breaks my heart, but the alternative is even more heart breaking.

I too would like to save every cat in need that I hear about. So far I've only come across these stories online and am unable to help except for making a regular donation to a non-euthanasia shelter. I don't know what I'd do if a cat in need actually turned up on my door step. I suspect I'd do what you other members are doing, and take the cat in, take care of it and try to find it a home. I admire you enormously.

You all may be interested in visiting a web site from a place in Florida USA I believe called The Caboodle Ranch.

http://www.caboodleranch.com/Index.html

At first glance it's very "over the top", but when you actually read everything on the site, how the ranch came into being and about the lives these rescued and surrendered cats now lead, I think you'll be impressed. It's my dream to be able to some day establish, or be a part of, something along the same lines here in Australia.

However, until that unknown time, even helping one animal, or a dozen, or making a small donation to a non-euthanasia shelter which will look after abandoned and mistreated cats is better than doing nothing. Every little bit helps.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" - Old Chinese Proverb

[Michelle1963]

lynh, as we live in a very rural area its hard as no rules apply to the number of animals, these people have atleast 7 dogs ans 14 cats, not to mention, rabbits, guinea pigs, and many differant birds, they even have pet mice which was funny as we come through a very bad mouse plauge.
I have spoke to council and rspca but as the animal have the basics eg food, water, shelter. they are not really interested.
They know they have a problem but can stop them selves, every time i see a sign or advert for Free to good home i pray they dont end up next door to me.
I have spoken to people i know at vets/pet shop and people i know who place these adds, that if ???? ring s up dont give the animal to them.

[Clean Feral]

I just saw caboodle on youtube, how wonderful that would be. I read their story and saw they needed donations.
People are generous in America. I didn't donate. I paused the movie and continued reading rescue stories here and peoples opinion about welfare;people with their priorities. where welfare should be aimed.
I'm shocked. Then I saw the comments on youtube

ALERT***** The Caboodle Ranch is under full attack. PETA managed to convince the State's Attorney to arrest Craig Grant and allow the ASPCA to come in and take all of the animals. This is currently happening as I am typing this.

http://caboodleranch.livejournal.com/

Now I'm even more shocked. Was he meant to bribe them or?

will you sign this petition?

http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig...caboodle-ranch#

[lynh]

I think the Caboodle Ranch is the most wonderful thing that's ever been done for cats. This is something I'd like to be able to do myself, when $$$ fall out of the sky.

I've signed the petition of course. This man shouldn't be being hounded. The money being used to pursue him would be better spent as a big donation to the ranch, upgrading his health resources or anywhere they feel that the place is lacking.

These cats would probably all be dead, or reproducing....... 7 x unneutered female cats + 7 x unneutered male cats x 7 years = 420,000 kittens!!!

If you're the type of person who likes to buy cat themed "things", for example, mugs, fridge magnets, pictures, t-shirts, keyrings, you can donate a little to the Caboodle Ranch by choosing Caboodle Ranch themed items - the profits go to the ranch. You can do this through zazzle.com.au, or through the Caboodle web site I think.

[love.my.cats]

The Caboodle Ranch is a good idea in theory but it seems he just doesn't have the funds to properly care for all the animals and although he's done his best at trying to save the cats, it seems they're not getting the vet treatment they need and are suffering anyway.

Here's a link that was posted in another forum I'm part of not too long ago.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest...-rescue/1217333

I know this guy had the best intentions but when you read that article and see pictures of some of the cats that were in his care, it's just horrible. I think he tried to save the world and got in way too deep and now these poor cats are suffering as a result. I realise that majority of the cats are healthy and this may be a very small amount who are that sick but I don't think ANY animal should be left unwell to the point they cannot lift their head, or move from their own mess.

[kittenmitten]

think there could also be more going on here than what you are seeing, for instance the You tube footage was filmed over EIGHT months by a "volunteer" working in the infirmary, who was undercover for PETA - if there was such abuses going on over 8 months, then they should hang their head in shame they did not blow the whistle before now, but there is a bill going up before Florida jurisdiction right now that this case could have a lot of impact upon, so really don't think the timing was accidental - PETA are well known for doing what they want, no matter how illegal, to get their point across, and quite frankly, I would like to hear something from an unbiased party, not just PETA's take on the story. Think this guy had good intention, but like a lot of rescue mobs, got in too deep too quick, had no idea of multiple animal husbandry relating to cats and thought they would all be fine just shoved in together - I have issues sometimes with just my mob, and need to break them into a couple of groups, so don't know how he could expect 700 to get along happily together.

[love.my.cats]

I do agree that there is so much that would be going on that hasn't been presented. And I personally don't know a lot about Peta but I've read that they are very biased and will do pretty much anything to get what they want.
I guess it's a bit of a reminder to us all to not take on more than we can handle though. Sure, adopt as many needy cats as we can afford but everyone really needs to recognise their limits.

[lynh]

There have been too many good reports, photos and videos from Caboodle Ranch in many places over the years for PETA's claims to be anywhere near accurate. Of course a picture of a very sick cat taken before its medications and treatments, at its worst, is going to look horrible. How many of these 700 cats are going to end up PTS, if they haven't all been already!! If you took a photo of my litter bowl areas first thing in the morning there are times when it would look like I don't look after my cats - when for most of the day these areas are spotless and constantly being kept clean.

Why don't PETA HELP Craig if his care is lacking in some areas (though personally I doubt there's really much of a problem that money wouldn't improve). Craig fights to keep even the extremely ill cats alive, and many of them have, although, sure, they've looked horrible at times. They are alive now and healthy, when these so-called caring organisations would have PTS long before they even had a chance.

Why don't PETA go to Ireland, where Irish law treats cats as VERMIN, and where they can be mistreated, tortured, starved, thrown into the street when they are not wanted, are allowed to breed uncontrolled - I could go on and on!! I've seem pictures of Irish street cats that would make you throw up and not be able to stop.....kittens with eyes so infected that they are actually rotting in their heads, cats wandering around with open wounds crawling with maggots, the starving, the desperate.........where rescue organisations are fighting a losing battle with an unspeakable situation and amongst themselves, and because of the law there is absolutely no government assistance. I wonder how many cats in just that country PETA could help instead of wasting valuable resources hounding a good man. I am SO angry I could spit!!!!!!

[kittenmitten]

lovemycats - PETA is an organisation who has at its forefront a desire to see no animals at all being kept as pets, and do not want anyone to have a pet dog or cat at all. To this end, they seek to destroy all breeders (doesn;t matter whether they are registered, BYB or commercial), stop no kill shelters (as they only stop animals being PTS), and want to have all animals being kept as pets abolished within the next generation or so. Think it won;t happen - there are PETA people everywhere, including the RSPCA and elsewhere, and radicals like Deb Tranter here in Vic with their Oscars Law agenda are simply playing into their hands and don't realise they are being used as a tool to help achieve their objective.

[lynh]

Hey kittenmitten, your information begs the question - if people aren't supposed to keep any animals as pets, where do all these animals go? Species such as dogs and cats no longer have an environment to go back to. It's not like someone who has a crocodile in their pool and PETA returns it to the Northern Territory. Domestication/civilisation has robbed these pet animals of a home. In his own strange way, I think Craig at Caboodle Ranch was providing such a place, although (in his favour), the cats had to have been de-sexed before he would take them in, therefore this environment could only be maintained by a constant intake, which perhaps got a bit out of hand in relation to the numbers "leaving" for the Rainbow Bridge.

Let PETA target puppy and kitten farms by all means - and leave the rest to US, the people who actually care about animals!!

[International_kitty77]

The "broke cat owner" story is tragic...

So many perspectives on it.

The main issue that comes to mind is the practical feeding and taking care of the cats. I don't feel sorry for the woman who has malnourished the cats. She has put herself before the animals, which is selfish. She is not looking at the situation in the best interests of the cats. She is making an emotional judgment to keep them instead.

Unfortunately, the Australian laws are inadequate to protect animals from their owners.

You are to be commended for trying to help the animals as well as the owner.